Libera should prefer free software options instead of proprietary services

[pedrolucasp]

This subject has been discussed before and if I recall correctly, it were postponed
by lacking man power to do so. For a network that has become the default home for most
free software is fundamentally correct to cast your gold on other platforms that are built on top of
FOSS. It is a movement that is not only strategic but morally correct to do so. Moving away from Github,
Twitter and Facebook begin with removing those links from the footer and it takes 5 minutes to do so.
Of course, moving from Github may be a slow process due to CI or other sort of infra, but it is possible
to public archive or (less desired) to mirror its content.

[ddevault]

Hear, hear. It's downright embarrassing for a project in a position like Libera's to be endorsing proprietary walled garden surveillance dragnets like GitHub, Twitter, and Facebook.

[jesopo]

we're infrastructure, not a social movement. we're endorsing nothing and opting for whatever has the lowest bar to entry because we're volunteers with limited time and energy

[ddevault]

You are infrastructure and a social movement. Everything is politics. You cannot opt out.

[jesopo]

everything being political doesn't make us a social movement. I'm unconvinced that the cost of a higher bar on dwindling contributions is outweighed by the virtue it'd signal.

that said, I wouldn't stand in the way of the rest of the stafferate wanting to move. i just think it'd be performative in our case and hurt us all

[jesopo]

fwiw I'm purely talking about the use of github here, using twitter isn't optional if we're using it to contact the masses. its inherent value is the audience it reaches and we can't move that audience elsewhere

[pedrolucasp]

On Sun Nov 28, 2021 at 5:48 PM -03, jess porter wrote: fwiw I'm purely talking about the use of github here, using twitter isn't optional if we're using it to contact the masses. it's inherent value is the audience it reaches and we can't move that audience elsewhere

I disagree entirely. If I need support for a given platform I'll just use whatever I have at hand to get the support I need. I honestly doubt that if Libera wasn't on Twitter, someone who is in need of support and has a Twitter account would just give up because "I can't @ libera". The audience will follow you wherever you are if they want it. Furthermore it's awkard to, as you said, a infrastructure provider to want to "follow the masses". So is Libera on Twitter or Facebook for what purpose? Again, even in a strategic standpoint, getting away from proprietary tools signal that Libera is indeed committed to support and help the FOSS ecosystem to flourish. And lastly, it's simply the matter of deleting two accounts on two services which would bring less of a burden to maintain anyway. I can prepare a patch for removing the links on the libera homepage, hell, I can even volunteer to write a Libera's blog announcement if that helps.

[jesopo]

I disagree entirely. If I need support for a given platform I'll just use whatever I have at hand to get the support I need.

you are not everyone and cannot speak for everyone

I honestly doubt that if Libera wasn't on Twitter, someone who is in need of support and has a Twitter account would just give up because "I can't @ libera".

this feels like you might have a poor grasp of what our userbase is like

The audience will follow you wherever you are if they want it. Furthermore it's awkard to, as you said, a infrastructure provider to want to "follow the masses".

not at all, we provide a specific piece of infrastructure (IRC) and exist on a bunch of commonly used social media platforms. we don't disseminate news through global messages on IRC because they're irritating for some, easy to miss for others, and will not be read by people that aren't connected all the time

So is Libera on Twitter or Facebook for what purpose?

communicating with our userbase asynchronously

Again, even in a strategic standpoint, getting away from proprietary tools signal that Libera is indeed committed to support and help the FOSS ecosystem to flourish.

we also have a fediverse account! https://fosstodon.org/@liberachat

And lastly, it's simply the matter of deleting two accounts on two services which would bring less of a burden to maintain anyway.

I wouldn't say the burden of having 2 social media accounts is enough to outweigh the benefit in communicating with users

I can prepare a patch for removing the links on the libera homepage, hell, I can even volunteer to write a Libera's blog announcement if that helps.

you can, but I'm fairly certain it'll not be merged, like what happened with previous attempts at this

[ddevault]

you are not everyone and cannot speak for everyone

Neither do you, jess. In fact, I'm fairly certain that you hold the minority view.

[257m]

I am supportive of moving to more true FOSS options and don't think it will hurt the user base much.
I think maintaining a GitHub mirror but keeping it mainly on a non proprietary service would be great.
I think it would reach a better balance between accessibility and independence from proprietary services.
Infrastructure would still be a problem but I am sure that can be sorted out in a way that has minimal friction.
I know this is a stale issue and will probably not be considered but I do hope we can reach independence from
proprietary services.

[jesopo]

now i've been prompted to look at this thread again i'd like to apologise for how terse and rude 2021 jess was